Posted Jun 23, 2008 at 02:22PM by Isaac C.
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Physics
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black hole,
particle accelerator,
Large Hadron Collider
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The Large Hadron Collider (LHC), the world's largest and most powerful particle accelerator to date, may be considered as one of mankind's greatest achievements when it becomes fully operational in the next few months. Many also fear that it may very well be mankind's doom. Start her up and *whoosh*, black hole swallows us all up. Black holes are just one of the many fears that were put forward with the construction of the LHC. The huge machine (17 miles in circumference) was made to bang particles together. Ok, not just bang. SMASH. Like Hulk smash, only with the power of as much as 14 trillion electron volts. These collisions are meant to produce mini-versions of the Big Bang. Such power, of course, may have its consequences. It may reveal scientific insight as we have never imagined - or it may produce a black hole or something just as dangerous. A new safety review says otherwise though. The review was made by a council comprised of five physicists endorsed by CERN, the group behind the LHC. According to the council, there's nothing to worry about. None at all. Well, the report says that the LHC may produce microscopic black holes, according to some theories. However, if black holes do pop up in line with these theories, these would be harmless, and would immediately disintegrate. The report goes on, in 96 pages, how other strange phenomena the LHC might produce won't be harmful to Earth's health. We'll take your word for it, CERN. You did give us the World Wide Web after all. |
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[Via CERN]
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28 Comments
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by purple_cow - 2008-06-23 |
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» yeah
and as everyone knows, you can trust everything you read on the www
and as everyone knows, you can trust everything you read on the www
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by leq - 2008-06-23 |
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» Black Holes
If Hawking Radiation does indeed exist, then the black holes would evaporate almost instantly.
If Hawking Radiation does indeed exist, then the black holes would evaporate almost instantly.
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by Silver-Tiger - 2008-06-23 |
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» I don't knwo about you, but...
forgetting about fake news or not,
Is it really worth the risk, putting the whole Earth in danger just to learn something about the past? it's not that we gain a new super engine or a new source of energy. Of course I'm not actually against science, but I wonder if such things are really neccessary.
forgetting about fake news or not,
Is it really worth the risk, putting the whole Earth in danger just to learn something about the past? it's not that we gain a new super engine or a new source of energy. Of course I'm not actually against science, but I wonder if such things are really neccessary.
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Re: Meseria - 2008-06-24 |
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» maybe not...
last time i checked smashing certain atoms together at very high speeds produces a lot of energy. So couldnt this somehow in the future be able to be done using a few feet of pipe to smash atoms together and have the explosion power engines? Thats kinda how internal combustion engines work... lots of little explosions turn the pistons.
Another note... who cares if we destroy the earth doing this? we are already destroying it; atleast this has some sort of hope to drastically alter our current path.
last time i checked smashing certain atoms together at very high speeds produces a lot of energy. So couldnt this somehow in the future be able to be done using a few feet of pipe to smash atoms together and have the explosion power engines? Thats kinda how internal combustion engines work... lots of little explosions turn the pistons.
Another note... who cares if we destroy the earth doing this? we are already destroying it; atleast this has some sort of hope to drastically alter our current path.
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by Nineball - 2008-06-23 |
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» Switzerland is a neutral country.
....so it's ironic that they'd cause the end of the world.
....so it's ironic that they'd cause the end of the world.
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Re: GW2 - 2008-06-23 |
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» neutral doesnt mean peaceful
ever think of that?
ever think of that?
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Re: Nineball - 2008-06-23 |
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» (clap, clap) Clever....but you missed the point.
The irony is in that they refused to take part in the two biggest wars in the history of the world, but inadvertently cause the most damage to it. It has nothing to do with semantics. Perhaps if you weren't in a hurry to be facetious and clever, you'd have figured that out.
The irony is in that they refused to take part in the two biggest wars in the history of the world, but inadvertently cause the most damage to it. It has nothing to do with semantics. Perhaps if you weren't in a hurry to be facetious and clever, you'd have figured that out.
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Re: Donciclon - 2008-06-23 |
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» ouch
...pwned
...pwned
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Re: trigger - 2008-06-24 |
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» and i always thought
that Switzerland might cause the end of the world via pocket knives, cheese, wrist watches, chocolates, and a really kickass banking system. LOL. Which isn't an altogether a bad idea to die from, IMHO. hehehe! now we have to throw in black holes as part of the list? no thanks. i'm happy with the cheese and chocolate. ^_^
that Switzerland might cause the end of the world via pocket knives, cheese, wrist watches, chocolates, and a really kickass banking system. LOL. Which isn't an altogether a bad idea to die from, IMHO. hehehe! now we have to throw in black holes as part of the list? no thanks. i'm happy with the cheese and chocolate. ^_^
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by rory - 2008-06-23 |
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» Apocalyse coming to fruititon
***** this, why would you want this? 2012, we're all dead. It's all coming together.
***** this, why would you want this? 2012, we're all dead. It's all coming together.
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Re: Dudeman3k - 2008-06-24 |
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» 2012
hey, it's not necessarily death, just "the end of the world as we currrently know it"
so maybe whatever info they learn from this thing would help create a new understanding of the universe
well.... whatever, either way, something new at 2012
hey, it's not necessarily death, just "the end of the world as we currrently know it"
so maybe whatever info they learn from this thing would help create a new understanding of the universe
well.... whatever, either way, something new at 2012
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by ShadeyProphet - 2008-06-23 |
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» Physics 1, Apocalypse 0
I'm no physicist. but as I understand it a black hole as science understands it. is a mass with infinite density. as we know density and mass create gravity.
so if you have a great deal of mass in a rather small space you get intense gravity. The phenomenon is called a singularity or more commonly a black hole.
wiki this ***** guys, i know whats I'm talking about here.
anyway.
This particle accelerator may create scattered points where mass may collide and fuse to create points where gravity may be intensified.
but it wouldn't feel a lot different then say the pull of a magnet from a distance. you wouldn't want to be ground zero I suppose.
if one of those little anomalies happened to set off inside you it would be like the effected portion of your body got horribly maimed.
in effect. at the very worse this machine will create a point so dense that the machine itself may be damaged or destroyed.
the crisis would be pretty much over at that point.
I'm no physicist. but as I understand it a black hole as science understands it. is a mass with infinite density. as we know density and mass create gravity.
so if you have a great deal of mass in a rather small space you get intense gravity. The phenomenon is called a singularity or more commonly a black hole.
wiki this ***** guys, i know whats I'm talking about here.
anyway.
This particle accelerator may create scattered points where mass may collide and fuse to create points where gravity may be intensified.
but it wouldn't feel a lot different then say the pull of a magnet from a distance. you wouldn't want to be ground zero I suppose.
if one of those little anomalies happened to set off inside you it would be like the effected portion of your body got horribly maimed.
in effect. at the very worse this machine will create a point so dense that the machine itself may be damaged or destroyed.
the crisis would be pretty much over at that point.
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Re: rpgpro001 - 2008-06-24 |
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» me neither, but...
i know a thing or two about physics, and technology/electromagnets/particle acceleration/deceleration. you are mostly right, there should not be too much of a problem with particla acceleration collision, but the actual effect would be unknown for multiple particles (such as millions). I went to a cal tech demonstration about absolute zero (stopping particles with lasers, causing them to instantly freeze), it causes affect to other things around it, changing the temperature slightly with them. The opposite however, will cause a lot of energy and heat, which on a large scale, could alter gravity and start to effect environment (which would probably tear up trees and gravel in the area, due to lack of gravity of earth at that point)
P.S. if it was used on humans, especially the gravity gun theory as you suggested in your other post, it would kill anyone it touched (half life is wrong, you insides would be ripped apart at the sudden change of gravity).
i know a thing or two about physics, and technology/electromagnets/particle acceleration/deceleration. you are mostly right, there should not be too much of a problem with particla acceleration collision, but the actual effect would be unknown for multiple particles (such as millions). I went to a cal tech demonstration about absolute zero (stopping particles with lasers, causing them to instantly freeze), it causes affect to other things around it, changing the temperature slightly with them. The opposite however, will cause a lot of energy and heat, which on a large scale, could alter gravity and start to effect environment (which would probably tear up trees and gravel in the area, due to lack of gravity of earth at that point)
P.S. if it was used on humans, especially the gravity gun theory as you suggested in your other post, it would kill anyone it touched (half life is wrong, you insides would be ripped apart at the sudden change of gravity).
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Re: leq - 2008-06-24 |
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» @ShadeyProphet
You say all the miniature black hole would do is damage the machine and then the crisis would end. However, assuming Hawking radiation does not exist (which seems to be an assumption in your theory), the black hole would grow (this does not mean singularity would end, it just means the event horizon would expand) as a result of the cosmic microwave background radiation. Ultimately, the earth would be consumed by the black hole.
However, all of this hinges on the assumption that Hawking radiation doesn't exist. The reality is that we simply don't know what would happen if a micro black hole was created. It would probably help if we had a theory of quantum gravity to work with.
You say all the miniature black hole would do is damage the machine and then the crisis would end. However, assuming Hawking radiation does not exist (which seems to be an assumption in your theory), the black hole would grow (this does not mean singularity would end, it just means the event horizon would expand) as a result of the cosmic microwave background radiation. Ultimately, the earth would be consumed by the black hole.
However, all of this hinges on the assumption that Hawking radiation doesn't exist. The reality is that we simply don't know what would happen if a micro black hole was created. It would probably help if we had a theory of quantum gravity to work with.
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Re: Lunisneko - 2008-06-25 |
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» HOLY *****
ROCKET SCIENTISTS ON QJ WHO WOULDA THUNK IT
ROCKET SCIENTISTS ON QJ WHO WOULDA THUNK IT
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by ShadeyProphet - 2008-06-23 |
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» in short.
this machine is no more then say.
a primitive gravity gun.
or a first step tword something like that.
this machine is no more then say.
a primitive gravity gun.
or a first step tword something like that.
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by ShadeyProphet - 2008-06-24 |
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» ahh, @leq.
you missunderstand me leq.
The crisis stated, would be the fear that some some would perpetuate as the end of the world or even the universe. "as some would fear such a black hole would just rip the universe a new one"
That just wont happen. in this case.
The fact is when you have a great mass of atoms that fuse on a molecular level there will be radiation.
There is no escaping that.
but said radiation could be 'managed" and surely wouldn't be a threat on the level that some people fear.
you know. gama radiation. as a lot of people may or may not know. is the rediation that was given off when the universe exploded in the big bang.
this radiation has been proven to exisist and in many cases "used" to determine just how old a given part of the universe is.
neat stuff.
but yes, there will without a boudt be radiation.
I plead no contest to that...
you missunderstand me leq.
The crisis stated, would be the fear that some some would perpetuate as the end of the world or even the universe. "as some would fear such a black hole would just rip the universe a new one"
That just wont happen. in this case.
The fact is when you have a great mass of atoms that fuse on a molecular level there will be radiation.
There is no escaping that.
but said radiation could be 'managed" and surely wouldn't be a threat on the level that some people fear.
you know. gama radiation. as a lot of people may or may not know. is the rediation that was given off when the universe exploded in the big bang.
this radiation has been proven to exisist and in many cases "used" to determine just how old a given part of the universe is.
neat stuff.
but yes, there will without a boudt be radiation.
I plead no contest to that...
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by Haki - 2008-06-24 |
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» why??
why the hell would anyone wanna create something as destructive as a black hole NEAR/ON earth?? these guys are mad
why the hell would anyone wanna create something as destructive as a black hole NEAR/ON earth?? these guys are mad
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by Strife56 - 2008-06-25 |
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» I thought it was fake...
...Is this bull***** or is it actually real, I've been wanting to know for some time now, would be appreciated if someone could tell me wether I'm being a gullible moron or not haha
...Is this bull***** or is it actually real, I've been wanting to know for some time now, would be appreciated if someone could tell me wether I'm being a gullible moron or not haha
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Re: whaleshark - 2008-06-25 |
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» Oh its real all right.
This is the LHC the huge thing that they towed into switzerland a while back... and in a few months they are going full blast.
This is the LHC the huge thing that they towed into switzerland a while back... and in a few months they are going full blast.
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Re: Lunisneko - 2008-06-25 |
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» ds
Damn straight it's real. Wikipedia:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Large_Hadron_Collider
Damn straight it's real. Wikipedia:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Large_Hadron_Collider
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by failtorespond - 2008-06-25 |
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» Is this..
..the thing that was in the Dan Brown book, angels and demons? The large underground thing that made the antimatter.
..the thing that was in the Dan Brown book, angels and demons? The large underground thing that made the antimatter.
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Re: Lunisneko - 2008-06-25 |
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» I think so...
I'm fairly sure it is.
I'm fairly sure it is.
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Re: ShadeyProphet - 2008-06-25 |
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» no, antimater is a different beast entirely.
In particle physics and quantum chemistry, antimater is a substance composed of antiparticles. basically all matter in the universe is made up of atoms.
while matter would where atoms combine "quite naturaly to create matter''.
well i'll break it down here as best I can.
every atom has an electron.
These electrons can and do carry an electrical charge.
antimater. is mater that is made up of atom that have negitivly charged electrons.
While. antimater isnt found often in the natural universe it is inheriently present.
the old myth that if if a peice of positive matter collides with a peice of negitive or antimatter creating an explosion is true.
lets say, if you happend to touch some antimatter. lets pretend its in a container on a table. as soon as your positivly charged mater touchs it. it sets off like gunpowder.
the antimater itsef gets destroied in the blast along with whatever part of you was unlucky enought to be close enought to the blast to be destroied.
it would be quite a powerful blast. uncontrolled, a cup of antimater about the size of a cup of coffee. could do more damage then any bomb or weapon the world has ever imagined.
but still it wouldnt destroy the universe.
picture antimatter more or less like a very clean very potent fule alternative.
ever so much more powerful then nuclear energy.
To be honest because of its very nature.
I dont suppose any physisicst would debate that antimater would be the most devastatingly powerful energy on planet earth, and for that matter the known universe.
and yet because of it's very nature and power in reaction to positivly charged matter.
it could also be the most helpful and miraculous solution to the worlds energy crisis known to man.
with antimatter we could literally create an unlimited supply of energy. its so powerful that the ammount of antimater that could fit on the head of a needle could power the entire unites states for two full years.
perhaps with antimatter their will be acidents. and problems. its a sad risk..
But so worth it.
In particle physics and quantum chemistry, antimater is a substance composed of antiparticles. basically all matter in the universe is made up of atoms.
while matter would where atoms combine "quite naturaly to create matter''.
well i'll break it down here as best I can.
every atom has an electron.
These electrons can and do carry an electrical charge.
antimater. is mater that is made up of atom that have negitivly charged electrons.
While. antimater isnt found often in the natural universe it is inheriently present.
the old myth that if if a peice of positive matter collides with a peice of negitive or antimatter creating an explosion is true.
lets say, if you happend to touch some antimatter. lets pretend its in a container on a table. as soon as your positivly charged mater touchs it. it sets off like gunpowder.
the antimater itsef gets destroied in the blast along with whatever part of you was unlucky enought to be close enought to the blast to be destroied.
it would be quite a powerful blast. uncontrolled, a cup of antimater about the size of a cup of coffee. could do more damage then any bomb or weapon the world has ever imagined.
but still it wouldnt destroy the universe.
picture antimatter more or less like a very clean very potent fule alternative.
ever so much more powerful then nuclear energy.
To be honest because of its very nature.
I dont suppose any physisicst would debate that antimater would be the most devastatingly powerful energy on planet earth, and for that matter the known universe.
and yet because of it's very nature and power in reaction to positivly charged matter.
it could also be the most helpful and miraculous solution to the worlds energy crisis known to man.
with antimatter we could literally create an unlimited supply of energy. its so powerful that the ammount of antimater that could fit on the head of a needle could power the entire unites states for two full years.
perhaps with antimatter their will be acidents. and problems. its a sad risk..
But so worth it.
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by arnookie - 2008-06-25 |
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» Not a problem it's only
We should worry more about planet x and 2012 than this. But for everyone worrying over this only time will tell. Although Black holes don't just disappear. I am pretty sure No evidence points to that or proves it so far. Balck holes only grow not shrink. atleast not until they can't feed anymore.
Time we find out I suppose.
We should worry more about planet x and 2012 than this. But for everyone worrying over this only time will tell. Although Black holes don't just disappear. I am pretty sure No evidence points to that or proves it so far. Balck holes only grow not shrink. atleast not until they can't feed anymore.
Time we find out I suppose.
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by ShadeyProphet - 2008-06-25 |
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» black holes.
do not only grow bro. in fact a stable black hole. is know to have phases where it stops feeding entirely.
and stages where they become instable and explode.
*see big bang theory.
anyway. black holes are a phenomenon, we dont understand everything about them.
but we do know they can range from super massive. to micorscopic.
but ultimately. any black holes we create here on earth. would have to be large and powerful enough to
over take the earths gravity and swallow the entire planet. But from what we know about black holes.
Size does matter.
A microscopic back hole. literlay is to small to threaten the earth,
The earths gravity would literaly kick its ass and reabsorbe the matter back into our own gravity.
not to mention, the lhc just doesnt have the power to create an infinitly dense mass.
At most this will create gravity anomalys wile the lhc is firing.
and when the lhc it turned off or or destroyed. what is accelerating the particles then?
The own gravity of said produced mass?
Not likely. it's like expecting to find gold in a coal mine.
it just wont be happening.
do not only grow bro. in fact a stable black hole. is know to have phases where it stops feeding entirely.
and stages where they become instable and explode.
*see big bang theory.
anyway. black holes are a phenomenon, we dont understand everything about them.
but we do know they can range from super massive. to micorscopic.
but ultimately. any black holes we create here on earth. would have to be large and powerful enough to
over take the earths gravity and swallow the entire planet. But from what we know about black holes.
Size does matter.
A microscopic back hole. literlay is to small to threaten the earth,
The earths gravity would literaly kick its ass and reabsorbe the matter back into our own gravity.
not to mention, the lhc just doesnt have the power to create an infinitly dense mass.
At most this will create gravity anomalys wile the lhc is firing.
and when the lhc it turned off or or destroyed. what is accelerating the particles then?
The own gravity of said produced mass?
Not likely. it's like expecting to find gold in a coal mine.
it just wont be happening.
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by Scarface88 - 2008-06-26 |
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» This has been around for ages.
I've had many a discussion about this a while ago... so it's actually nearing functionality, eh?
The thing is, a black hole can be the size of a teacup, and still suck in the entire Earth. So, if one or two microscopic black holes are created, then surely they would still do some damage? Like, at least damage the particle accelerator, which has taken years to construct in the first place?
If that's the case, and there's no real advancement in our perception of the universe, then what a waste.
I've had many a discussion about this a while ago... so it's actually nearing functionality, eh?
The thing is, a black hole can be the size of a teacup, and still suck in the entire Earth. So, if one or two microscopic black holes are created, then surely they would still do some damage? Like, at least damage the particle accelerator, which has taken years to construct in the first place?
If that's the case, and there's no real advancement in our perception of the universe, then what a waste.
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by Koru-Kun - 6 hours ago |
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» short answer
NO
NO
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